Mixed and Mastered
Mixed and Mastered is the podcast where the untold stories of the music industry come to life. Hosted by Jeffrey Sledge, a veteran music executive and former VP of A&R at Atlantic Records and Jive Records, each episode dives deep into the journeys, challenges, and triumphs of the people shaping the sound of today. From label executives and producers to artists, songwriters, and managers, Jeffrey brings you behind the scenes to meet the minds driving the industry forward. There’s a gap in the marketplace for these voices, and Mixed and Mastered is here to fill it—one conversation at a time. Because the best stories are told by those who lived them.
Mixed and Mastered
Caron Veazey
This week, Jeffrey sits down with the incomparable Caron Veazey — a music industry force whose career has spanned MCA, Epic, RCA, Island Def Jam, global marketing at Sony, and nearly a decade managing Pharrell Williams. Caron shares her journey from growing up in the DMV to discovering the music business at NBC’s Saturday Night Live, championing artists across genres, and helping shape landmark moments like Rage Against the Machine x Wu-Tang Clan, Christina Aguilera’s Stripped era, and Pharrell’s “Happy.” She opens up about navigating a male-dominated industry without being pigeonholed, the global impact of music, the founding of Black Music Action Coalition, and what it means to create space for artists — and executives — to be their full, multidimensional selves.
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
This week on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking with Karen Vesey, a music executive, talent manager and a connector who has spent more than three decades shaping culture. Karen held marketing roles at RCA Island, def Jam and Sony Music before joining Pharrell Williams as his manager, where she helped orchestrate career-defining moments like Happy, blurred Lines and Get Lucky. Karen's work has bridged fashion, music, art, brand partnerships, has led to Grammy nominations, grammy wins, oscar nominations, cannes Lion Awards and a lasting footprint. Karen's also the co-founder of the Black Music Action Coalition, fighting for equity and opportunity across the music industry. This is Mixed and Mastered with Karen Vesey. Welcome to Mixed and Mastered, the podcast where the stories of the music industry come to life. I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringing you real conversations with the people who have shaped the sound of music. We're pulling back the curtain on what it takes to make it in the music business. These are the stories you won't hear anywhere else, told by the people who live them. This is Mixed and Mastered. Mixed and Mastered podcast with another big dog, big wig, phenomenal person Karen Vesey.
Speaker 2:Thanks for that, jeff. Hello, I love the phenomenal person part better than the big dog. Okay, yeah, right, because that's at the end of the day, that's the stuff that matters.
Speaker 1:That's what counts. That's what counts. You know, I was thinking, I was trying to remember the first time I met you. I don't remember. I can't remember either. I can't remember how we crossed paths.
Speaker 2:I mean just put in our day. I mean we all, just, we were outside, yeah, and everybody just knew each other bumped into each other, yeah, you know a friend of a friend, we just knew each other bumped into each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, a friend of a friend, and then that's just how that went.
Speaker 2:He started talking, and then we'd see each other at the same spots. There you go so yeah, there you go, so I kick it in.
Speaker 1:And then you know, in our day we go by each other's offices and talk and hang out. That's right, yeah, well, obviously it was good. However, it was good because we're still connected.
Speaker 2:It might have been Vanessa.
Speaker 1:It could have been Vanessa.
Speaker 2:And Vanessa and Lisa, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And Vanessa and Lisa yeah, yeah. Whatever it was, it was good.
Speaker 2:Who knows, who knows yeah.
Speaker 1:So, starting off, I did some research on you and I read that research that you were born and raised in the DMV.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Montgomery County. I thought it was PG County but you corrected me on that because, again I said in the text they are very different.
Speaker 2:They are very different and and we just, I think, when it's DMV and if it's not DC, you just expect it as PG. County, that's the next thing you just yeah.
Speaker 1:The kind of school. Montgomery has its own thing. I worked in. Montgomery County, out of college at IBM Rockridge Drive. I still remember that address.
Speaker 2:Where was that? In Rockville or something. It was in Bethesda, oh okay, which is where I went to high school, but that was at Chevy Chase.
Speaker 1:DCC. There you go, there you go. So tell me about growing up in Montgomery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean first of all, I mean it was a great upbringing. It was a great, you know, lifestyle. I was born in DC and grew up for the first until I was seven or eight, in Southwest.
Speaker 1:DC.
Speaker 2:My mother was a native Washingtonian and my father had come from Memphis to go to seminary at Howard. So that was back way, way, way back in like the 50s. So you know they lived in the district, as they call it. And then you know she was from Anacostia, so she was from the hood, and she, her dream, was okay, let's move out to the suburbs, let's go out to Maryland, so Montgomery County, way out, which isn't way out today, but it felt like then it was yeah, yeah, it felt like you know the drive was forever.
Speaker 2:yes, exactly so. So then that's where really I grew up until 12 and then we moved closer into, you know, back to the city essentially, and that was Chevy Chase and yeah, and I was always like how soon well, I should say, after they took me to New York for the first time, which was when I was 13, I was like how soon can I get out of here and go there and go there. And, you know, finally made it. But yeah, that was my after. I had a taste of that. Dc felt very, very small and very parochial. I got you and I couldn't wait to go. Much different than DC is now Much different.
Speaker 1:Well, DC is completely different now than it was a year ago. Several changes from then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I also read that you were a Baltimore club head.
Speaker 2:Ah well, I went to college in Towson, which is Baltimore. I went to.
Speaker 1:Moore, I don't know that, I don't know, but that's why the Baltimore club thing caught me. I was like, okay, odell's and all the clubs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but growing up in DC and you know how different DC and Baltimore are, night and day People think, because the proximity is close that they're the same, two different planets.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. So you know, coming from right outside of DC, you was go-go for us and obviously R&B and I remember KYS and WKYS and Donnie Simpson playing all sorts of music, so it was an R&B station or urban station, but they played back then Elton John, all in Oats live, variety stuff, so it was go-go or it was that. And going to Baltimore I was like what's this whole new world of house music? So that was a beautiful opportunity to expand my palate. Yeah, so that was awesome.
Speaker 1:So was that kind of your first. What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know, just kind of getting introduction, getting into house music just getting into music in general, was it kind of in that era of your life where you kind of kind of start saying I love this music thing and you know nothing. I don't know if you want to do it as a career, but like it was a kind of like, did it spark something?
Speaker 2:I always, as many people do, loved music I didn't really think of it. There wasn't a moment in time when I was like this is what I want to do until later. But like you know, high school college I just love music music fan.
Speaker 2:I majored in communications at school and I got an opportunity to be a page at NBC. So I thought so that was how I got to New York. So I thought you know I'm going to be, you know, a newscaster. You know Karen Veazey, reporting live from the, you know, from whatever spot in New York, but not to be, because as a page you work on all the shows, whether it was Nightly News or whether it was the Today Show, and we all worked on Saturday Night Live. So this particular Saturday Night Live, whitney was the musical guest, whitney Houston, and you're there all day, as we know, like from the afternoon all the way through 1 am.
Speaker 2:So, I'm talking to the teams, yeah, I'm talking to the teams, all of that. And I realized ding, ding, ding, ding ding. Oh, there can be a career Like this is actually a career, because we didn't have you know music business school of you know music and music business school and courses and classes.
Speaker 1:I tell people that all the time you say music, business schools and these multitudes of internships. It was very different back then To get in.
Speaker 2:You were either usually the funnels were, you were a promoter at school, on campus, maybe booking bands, booking artists, or maybe you wrote for the school paper in some way, so it was maybe music journalism, or you worked at Tower Records, so you worked on the sales side and you came in through that way. But you know there were limited. I mean, that was never even a thought, Like there was never a discussion about that being a career. We didn't know it, we never saw it. So I felt like that was one of the God shots, as I call it. That Saturday I was like oh my God.
Speaker 2:And then that, yeah. And then that Monday, two days later, I was looking for a job and I got a job at MCA, and that's how it all started.
Speaker 1:So who'd you work for at MCA?
Speaker 2:I worked for the head of marketing and two product managers, so Renee Givens, who was the urban product manager, and then Pam Marcello, who was the pop product manager, and then Randy and you're going to make me forget his last name, randy who was the head of, you know, head of marketing. So, yes, it was a big job to step into and I was only supposed to temp a couple of days and then they hired me on the second day.
Speaker 1:Wow, right away, they liked you that much. Right away you was in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they were like, oh, she's not phased, she doesn't care. You know, because at that time you know how it was, like all the artists were always up at the label, like it was that's where everybody hung out, that at the label, like it was that's where everybody hung out, it was a completely different vibe than you know what it is now. So, you know, we had Rakim would come up all the time, you know, to the office and my boss was his, you know, was Eric Van Rakim's product manager. It was heavy deal Down, the hall was Uptown, so you had Jodeci and Mary and you know. So all of that, and yeah, it was a, it was a special, special time and I felt like that was definitely written. Even though we have free will, I believe that was definitely, you know, faded, that was in the plan.
Speaker 1:It was your destiny. It was your destiny. Wait, before we go on. I want to get this correct because I have a special memory attached to this artist I read something about are you a huge Joni Mitchell?
Speaker 2:fan. Yes, okay, yes, I am a Joni Mitchell fan. Introduced to Joni Mitchell and this is how music and artists work introduced to Joni Mitchell through Prince, like through Prince's music With him. I think it's the Sign of the Times record when he's talking about and it was Joni saying help know with him. I think it's the Sign of the Times record when he's talking about and it was Joni singing. I was like who is that? And I went and researched and found Joni and I was like oh my.
Speaker 1:God.
Speaker 1:And from that moment, yeah, yeah, I met, I got introduced to her in a weird way. I was dating this girl, I was dating this girl and we was dating this girl and we were out around the Upper West Side and it started to pour rain, like the sky was opened up and so we had to like we weren't prepared. So we ducked into this like little small little restaurant thing and you know, we were trying to wait the rain out, so we got something to eat and we were talking and they were playing the hissing of summer lawns.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're playing that album in the restaurant and I was like by the second or third song I was like what is this? This is crazy. And the guy called the waiter over and he was like, oh, this is johnny mitchell hissing of summer lawns. He brought the cd over because it was the time it showed me the cover and I went on and bought the CD. It was almost like a rom-com how I discovered her. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so cool. It was crazy, it was really crazy, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but anyway, enough about me. I want to talk about you, no.
Speaker 2:I love these. No, you got to participate because you got stories have intersections and stuff, so so how long? Were you at mca, like maybe a year, a year?
Speaker 1:and a half, and then dallas austin his name comes up on this podcast so much I swear to god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure, with lisa too.
Speaker 2:You know, just recently yeah, so dallas was, and just so many people are tagged by him he's such a spirit and he and I immediately clicked kind of like spiritually, musically, because even though at that time he was the you know the king of you know king r&b producer but he really had love for like rock and you know some pop, so until we, like, would sit in my office. So, to fast forward, I met Dallas because Rocky Buchano, who was managing an artist at the time at MCA, was talking to Dallas about coming to run Rowdy. Records.
Speaker 2:And then so. So Rocky said Karen, you know you want to. I think you'd be great for this. You know, for this JV, and you know why don't you come talk to Dallas and see? So so that's how that happened. So we connected. I went to Rowdy. We'd sit in my office and listen to Alice in Chains and Soundgarden, and you know all the bands. Rage Against the Machine, and so that was the other side of him.
Speaker 2:So we definitely clicked there, because I've always been very eclectic with you know, in my music taste and which wasn't really understood back then but he's the same, he was the same, so you know we saw it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I missed. Um I again. The kids today, right, they don't really understand like, what trl and and stuff did for people, people's musical taste back then. Because kids right, like you know, jodeci, and they were like ll and they were like papa roach and they were like britney spears yeah, and they were like sound garden and they would like.
Speaker 1:You know yes, you know, jay-z it was it was like just a blend of the Foo Fighters. It was like a blend of the genres were very they all was on genres. It was just like what was dope? What was dope? You know, tlc and Hole were just dope. It wasn't like and I missed that. I think it's kind of changing now with playlisting, but I think for a long time kids missed out on experimenting in different genres of music.
Speaker 1:A thousand percent People couldn't understand it really, and I couldn't get them yeah yeah, yeah, so you worked with Rodney for a while. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I worked for Dallas for several years he probably like two years in maybe. He office was on 19th Street between 5th and 6th, and he decided, like I'm coming up here every week, you know, and spending all this time where all my whole setup is in Atlanta, so why don't we move everything to Atlanta? So he asked a few of us to move and so I went to Atlanta. I was like, yeah, I mean, you know, it was up for the adventure and we always used to have the best time in Atlanta. You know when we go for the weekends.
Speaker 2:So Vanessa and I moved and we were roommates. We got a little house in.
Speaker 1:Little Five. Wow, that was dope.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so it was a beautiful time. And and yeah, so it was a beautiful time and I was down in Atlanta probably like a year and a half and maybe going on two years, and then came back to I was itching to come back to New York. I came back to New York and started working at Epic. Back then I felt like I needed to work for a major to have my to get my respect, get my stripes.
Speaker 1:Now, who was running Epic at that time?
Speaker 2:Dave Glue was running Epic with Jed Doherty and Richard.
Speaker 1:Dave Glue, I can't remember his last name because I worked at Epic too for a while. I worked at Epic a couple years, 96-97. So Dave was there, polly Anthony was there. Richard would come over from UK, Vivian Scott. She hired me.
Speaker 2:And Vivian was there when I was you know, and she was the first woman, black woman who I saw. I was like oh, she's an executive, she's incredible, she's executive, she's incredible, she's beautiful, she's brilliant, you know. So she was a huge inspiration.
Speaker 1:I worked with Ron Sweeney. Yeah, sweeney is on the podcast as well, yeah, yeah, I didn't know you worked with him. So what actions did you work with over there?
Speaker 2:So here's the thing. So you know I'm coming from, you know with my eclectic taste, but steeped in, so far career-wise, steeped in R&B. Monica was my, you know, was my project at Rowdy right. So, coming from, yeah, I took her actually Vanessa, and I took her to get her hair cut Good shortcut, or hair done. Dallas wanted to fire me. We're playing so dope. Nobody has this. Nobody. She's going to be so distinctive and it turned out to be, true and to be the right thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right, and we used to pick her up from school, like you know, and then go to the studio and the whole thing. But anyway, so I'm coming from that, you know, to Epic, and I have Terry and Monica, I have um Cool D Rap, I have a gospel project and I have Groove Theory, and that's actually how I got to Epic, because Bryce had given, you know, we had the music, you know the demo, and we would listen to that, like all that particular summer it was all group theory.
Speaker 2:I wrote this plan and I gave it to Bryce and I was like they should do your project like this, you know, because it was a little alternative from what was you know what was happening in R&B at the time, and he passed that on to Jimmy, who passed it on to Dan Beck, who was the head of marketing, and Dan called me and that's how I got the job, that's how I got introduced to them.
Speaker 2:But so, yeah, so groove theory was my thing and at that time, you know, with street teams being what they were, you know, just, you know the beginning of street teams and that kind of marketing, there was a huge Rage Against the Machine fan still in and I said, well, we should do the same, we should put the street teams on Rage. And they were like what, why would we do that with this type of music? I said because it's there's so much crossover, you don't know it. So it's still the streets. So that's what they did and it worked really well. And so when they got ready for their I'm just going on with- these stories because okay.
Speaker 2:So when they were ready for their next album, the head of A&R, president of A&R and the entire team that worked on Rage asked me to come to the planning meeting. So I came to the planning meeting, got to hear I think it was Bulls on Parade to hear that album. I was listening, you know, didn't contribute. And then at the end he says well, karen, what do you think? So I'm like a junior product manager, I'm young, I'm like, do I speak up?
Speaker 2:I don't know what to do. Everybody turns and looks at me Another God moment for sure, because it just came to me in an instant. I said you know what we should look at putting Rage and Wu-Tang together, because that would be a dope combination and I think RZA would be into Zach and I think Zach would be into RZA. And so he said that's amazing, you're going to make that happen. I wasn't saying that. I was like oh yeah, I wasn't saying that, but that's what I did.
Speaker 2:I drove out to and I've never even told this, I don't think I drove out to Staten Island, to the studio and brought the music he didn't know about Rage, gave him the music, played some music, told him what they were about politically and all the things, and he was like dope, so made the introduction. They got together Next thing you know they are on SNL together and announced the tour that they were doing together. Somebody the next week took credit for all of that. You know I wasn't as upset, being a young person, I was like, okay, well, that just means that my ideas are good or that I'm on to something. So that was just kind of a validation. But I definitely felt proud behind the scenes, when I would see all the visibility from that.
Speaker 1:That's funny. It's funny real quick.
Speaker 1:When I worked at Epic, celine Dion was really starting to blow up and I remember sitting in the meeting they were playing some of my music and stuff and I just said, like you, I'll just blurt it out I was, like you know, black women, really like Celine Dion, and everybody in the room laughed. Everybody in the room laughed, that's right. So I'm not joking, I'm not playing. Like black women, really like her, like she has a huge black audience. They had no clue, they had no clue.
Speaker 1:When you get back again, back then, you know, when you get into these big rooms, a lot of those people were just so disconnected from other parts of genres and other parts of culture. I was like this, is it a thousand percent? They didn't even pay attention to anything outside of that little circle. And you said something like you said with Rage and Wu, or I just blurted out the thing with Celine. They were almost like what it was, like they were in the hearing, like aliens talk, like what are you talking about? I'm like yo y'all have no clue what's going on around, you know.
Speaker 1:So anyway, back, to you, so you get to RCA after Epic. Much later, much later.
Speaker 2:After Epic, I went to V2. So at that point in time I really wanted to. I was exploring the world. I would go to London all the time. This is when, like Turpop was, you know, a drum and bass.
Speaker 1:Is this Portishead era Over there? Okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, Portishead. Air. Massive Attack, tricky, you know all that, so I would go all the time. And then I heard that Richard Branson was starting the second Virgin right.
Speaker 2:Because he had sold a Virgin record and he wanted to start another label and so it was called V2. And I wanted to work in London and so we had met someone there the executive there, nr executive who really wanted me to come to London. Paperwork was taking a really long time, wasn't working out, so the US company US V2, asked me to come there and to be the head of product management, and the person who did that is my mentor to this day because he was at Arista when I was at Rowdy and Rowdy went through Arista. So he was the person that we dealt with all the time, richard Sanders and so he was like no, just come here, come to the New York office. Okay, cool. So that's where I went for a few years and that was incredible, just for enlightening, seeing the world in a different way. Going to France, seeing that, you know, the biggest export in music doesn't really matter as much as it does other places because they had their own thing, happening.
Speaker 2:so it was like, okay, you know you could have, um, you know, a huge artist, a huge international artist, they would call it, but they had their own local artists who were yep, and 20 times bigger um, and just the culture around that. So I learned so much there, learned how it worked in each territory, um, and, you know, got to spend a lot of time in in the UK, which was great. Cause that's where it was based. That's dope, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's fed my my, you know, wanderlust and uh yeah, and the opportunity to get into different kinds of music you go over there as a young person and you think, whatever's rocking in the US at that time, whatever it may be, you think it's going to be rocking everywhere. And then you go over there and you're hearing all this music and all these groups, bands, whatever, and you're like I don't know who's that, who's that, who's that, who's that.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, again the UK or France or all the territories. They got their own thing going on and sometimes some of the US thing permeates it, but they got their own thing. They don't release. They're not just waiting on the US releases.
Speaker 2:A lot of times it does. That's right, and now actually even more than then, because you know we look at the studies that have come out. You know the reports for this year how the US export is diminishing and the local markets and the local music is what's raining right now.
Speaker 1:So we're seeing that more and more, so tell me how you get there.
Speaker 2:So after V2, actually Vanessa Vanessa.
Speaker 1:Levy. Happy birthday. Happy birthday Vanessa.
Speaker 2:BFF. Happy birthday, vanessa. We were like we like this different kind of music and we like black music, whatever you know, however you want to call it, but we also like all this other stuff. Why don't we do something independent, create something like progressive urban culture? So that's what we called. Our company was called caravan c-aA-R-O, and then Van for Vanessa putting our names together, and that's what we did.
Speaker 2:We did marketing, progressive urban culture marketing. So that meant, for example, the Dido record had just come out and so we worked the Dido record to this Black alternative demo right, and it was the same kind of thing. When we would sit to pitch, you know the executives, they would be like, yeah, Like Black people are gonna like this. I said we're not a monolith, we're not a monolith, yes, yes. So we had success with that, A group of Sto same thing and Artful Dodger coming from the UK at that time, and we did that for two and a half years or so, maybe three. 9-11 happened during that last year of our company, which was obviously impactful in the craziest way. And then we said, you know what, maybe we want to go back to labels.
Speaker 2:So she went to Mercury and I went to RCA and again Richard Sanders, who I've talked about two times previously, from the Rally Arista and then from V, he brought me to RCA and specifically for the, you have an eclectic, diverse POV that nobody else over here has and you know that's where your contribution would be so and I had an incredible diverse roster. I had Christina Aguilera, I had Citizen Cope, I had Avril Lavigne, I had Heather Headley.
Speaker 1:You had Mark Bronson as well, right.
Speaker 2:We were all over the.
Speaker 1:And did you have the strokes and Mark? Yes, the strokes. How?
Speaker 2:can I forget them?
Speaker 1:I did. I'm here to do the research? But that's one of the things I've always admired about your career is you would not allow yourself to be pigeonholed musically.
Speaker 1:That's right, you know you're a black girl, for sure, for sure you know what I'm saying. But you, you know you, you black girl, for sure for sure you know I'm saying but but you wouldn't allow yourself to be like I, only like. You know this type, you, I'm only going to work with these type of artists. You, your, your, uh, musical palette was always very varied and I appreciated that about you, because a lot of us didn't get it. You know, I don't know, I don't make a victim thing, but a lot of us either didn't get a chance to do that or maybe didn't have the palate. So, you know, I appreciated that you were like a guiding light, to be like nah, you don't got to just do that. I mean, you could do that too. That's dope, dope as hell.
Speaker 2:But there's other things you can do as well.
Speaker 1:You don't have to have your skills just pigeonholed to this one type of genre. It only works here because you know what?
Speaker 1:they weren't doing that to the other that always killed me as an A&R person. We only were supposed to bring in like rap or R&B, blah, blah, blah. But you know the white cats thing, who, the white rock a&r guy, would always be like yo, but he's, he signed, you know whatever, and it blew up. We never, we know. And if it went the other way we found a group like that they would kind of slowly but surely take it from us. But that's cool, we we're going to call. In our head you find that there's meetings that you weren't invited to and the manager is only calling him. It's very frustrating. I'm glad.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that you didn't allow that. You were pioneering that, because that was very important.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks, that was the only way I knew how to be so the naivete.
Speaker 2:You know, coming to New York and you know, starting at MCA, that was how I was from jump, Like, so I didn't really know another way to be and I thought it was ludicrous that it should be another way, and that always helped me to be you know singular. You know singular in a sea of others. So, yeah, that is one of the things that is so important to me that we are never put in a position where we are in one lane. We are multitudes, we contain multitudes, and now more and more executives and labels and so forth are seeing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's taken a long time. Tell me a little bit about I'm going to pick two RCA acts that you work with. Tell me about working with the Strokes.
Speaker 2:The Strokes. I worked with them for their second record. I mean that was super fun record. I mean that was super fun. They were the kings of downtown, they were the kings of garage, they were the, and I really liked the music as well the head of marketing at RCA, dave Gottlieb.
Speaker 2:He had originally worked with them and then he brought me into the project, so that was super fun. That leave, he had originally worked with them and then he brought me into the project, so that was super fun. I remember going to Salt Lake City for one of their shows. It was the first time I think it might be the only time that I've gone to Salt Lake and again experiences where your eyes open. I was like why are all these people walking across the street holding hands? What's happening? Happening and how come they're giving me a license? I need a license, a permit to go get a drink, like it was. Just the whole culture in salt lake was, yeah, you had to, you had to, like, fill out this little thing to to drink alcohol. I don't know if that's still the case, but and they played the show and they were so welcoming and so you know they were so dope because, you.
Speaker 2:they're eclectic too, and their world wasn't just white people it wasn't homogenous, you know, yeah, so that was, that was a good time.
Speaker 1:Did you work on the first Christina Aguilera album or later on?
Speaker 2:I worked on when she busted out with Dirty. Tell me about that. I worked on when she busted out with Dirty. Tell me about that. I mean that was a great experience in working with a global superstar, because that's a whole different world, comes with a whole different set of circumstances, challenges, potentials, possibilities. I worked on that record and the record after the one that premiered it and you know she's beyond talented, and so that was a great experience Again, not just because the music was great because that was the record that Beautiful you know was from, was that second record?
Speaker 2:But because, again, of the access that I had to whole other levels that I hadn't had with previous artists, I wasn't going to have that with Strokes. I didn't have that, you know, with Cool G Rap, I didn't have that with, you know, terry and Monica. I didn't have that with Groove Theory. So this was like a great opportunity to expand. So, yeah, so that was, I mean that was so much fun. And the second record, I mean third record, but the one that premiered, premiered it, I mean it was it's, it's an R&B record period, like from front to to to back, and but the Billboard wasn't allowing it to be categorized as an R&B record as well. So I had to sit with Billboard, play the it was when Danielle was there, danielle Smith play the record and let them hear what is naturally there.
Speaker 1:And then we got the ability to be on the R&B charts and the pop charts. Of course, Billboard didn't want to even touch on the R&B side of the charts.
Speaker 2:Wow, not at all, not at all. They were charts. Not at all, not at all. They were like no, she's just, you know, pop artist, like what's the r&b? Well, did you listen to the record the whole record. Yeah, it was, because it's actually it was mark and primo. Both of them were on the record on the album and and yeah, so it was like from top to bottom it's an r&b record, so why wouldn't you? But again, you know that kind of the ignorance, you know the not delving into the conversations, the demarcation lines.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow.
Speaker 2:That's what that was about, but we got through it, so that was amazing.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's the, the politics of music, that music business that a lot of people don't get to see, like you know, with a billboard you know billboard wouldn't put it over here because we don't want it to be yeah, exactly, urban, for lack of a better term, and it's all that stuff that goes on, you know right and that's something the artist really wanted, because you know she wanted to, of course she would.
Speaker 2:So I thought back. I'm like, okay, sometimes when you're looking at your value and your contribution and your, you know what you bring to a situation, I was able to see that if I had not been in that role, that would never have happened. It would just be the pop side, pop charts. So I felt really good about that. I brought something very distinct to the project.
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Speaker 1:And now back to our show. So you were at RCA for six years.
Speaker 2:About just about six, I think, and then I left to go to Island Def Jam to be the head of marketing and that.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me about that. Tell me about that, I'm going to be quiet.
Speaker 2:That was the craziest experience in many positive ways, because there was so much creativity and a different sort of energy than I had worked around in a previous label situation. So that part was great. As the head of the department, I worked Mariah, I worked Rihanna and I worked Duffy, who is, as we talk about, kind of UK artist. So she was coming out of the, you know, kind of like the soul, the northern soul sound, yeah, from the uk, and we, you know, had a number one record here, you know, and that was so much fun working with her. But, yeah, it was, it was so intense, it was so in and but I had the best time working on the mariah record.
Speaker 2:This was the one after Emancipation of Mimi, and so this is during the time when LA Reid and Steve Bartles are there. Jay had just left as the president and LA had come in, and then the Rihanna timeframe was the Take a Bow record. So we repackaged the deluxe and came up with the name rihanna, rihanna reloaded. I remember walking in to la's office with like a whole list of names, you know, titles, potentials, um, he was like I like that. And then, uh, management, like this is what we went with, but um, so that was super intense. Fun learned a lot, but it was also working until 1 am. Yeah, you know all the time like all the time.
Speaker 1:All encompassing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then during that time, my sister passed away suddenly.
Speaker 1:Oh, glad to hear that.
Speaker 2:I just you know this was in 2008.
Speaker 2:And just rethought everything. You know, like my whole world, I needed to spend time with my parents, who were in DC, and then my niece, who was, you know, just 20 years old and still very much entrenched in DC, and you know a close family and all of that. So I left, I left IDJ and I went to, I moved back to DC for a few months to be with family and I was like, okay, so I'm going to figure it out in the fall. And then the fall comes. Who calls Richard Sanders? He's the commentator through all of this. He calls me. He was at that time the president of global marketing at Sony. As you know, loved international. I didn't understand why it wasn't a bigger deal to the US labels, because that's how everybody was getting paid.
Speaker 2:That's how everybody was making bonuses is the. You know, if you have Pink here, you know in the US and she sells. You know 50% or 49% of her sales are coming from the US, 51% are coming from XUS. Are we really going to prioritize the radio show in Indianapolis or are we going to send her to You're? Going to Berlin.
Speaker 2:Yes, I guess that's where you're making your money. Like, what are we talking about? But yeah, so I went to global marketing. I had the best time. It was incredible. Wow, I really got. But yeah, so I went to global marketing, had the best time. It was incredible. I really got to, you know, sink my teeth into all of the markets, and I'm talking about from India to Eastern Europe, to Latin America, and we would go and do meetings with all of the entire you know teams, because the rest of the world reported into our division. North America was separate. Yeah, and you know, it was just a good time. It was a good time for music. Sia's record came out during that time.
Speaker 2:And we had obviously all the big records. Yeah, you know, beyonce came out at that time, Alicia Keys, foo Fighters, kelly Clarkson, avril so yeah, it was a great experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when I was at Jive the owner of Jive, I'm saying, like he's not, he's still the high-class called.
Speaker 1:I remember one day he called me in his office and he was like Sledge was like close to the holidays, sledge, he was going to always call me Sledge, sledge, you're going to go, I'm going to send you to Europe. And I was like what, I'm going to send you to Europe, I want you to see how it is over there. So he sent me with R Kelly. R Kelly was on tour, so I went to London and Amsterdam and got to hang out with the Benelux people and the UK people and they really taught me what you're talking about, how things are marketed and work in these different territories and all the money, like you said, that's coming from all these different territories around the world that we don't in the US. We just I don't know, we just don't pay attention, we don't understand. And then you go over there and you see how big it is.
Speaker 2:It's like whoa, this is crazy.
Speaker 2:You know we did a presentation for all of the senior executives across all the sony labels to show exactly what I just shared, like, okay, alicia keys sells. It sells enormous amount in the us, but she also sells the same amount outside of the us. And so when they realized and saw it in black and white and were able to essentially trace again, trace their bonuses, because it all you know, follow the money, trace the bonuses to what was happening outside of the US and how they were performing, the artists you know were performing, then it was like light bulb went off and it was easier to get these artists on international trips, international promo, exactly vivian scott.
Speaker 1:She was on the show. That's exactly what she talked about. She was like she said she signed. I forget what artist it was now I'm blanking out, I apologize for it. It was somebody. And she said one year she was the only anr person to make her numbers. All that stuff was in the red, and she was shocked. She was like oh shit. And she said somebody leaned over. I forget who it was. He's on the show and the guy said international. Her artist was big overseas. So the artists were cooped where everybody else was trying to just make money, only in the States.
Speaker 2:Was it Desiree the artist.
Speaker 1:It. Was it Desiree the artist? It wasn't Desiree. It wasn't Desiree. I can't remember who it was. It was like an artist that wasn't.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to think of that time, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll use it to the show and I'll text you the number. I mean the artist. So how long were you here doing this?
Speaker 2:About three years and then, and I loved my job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the best, best experience. Plus, we got to travel a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got to travel, and not just to. You know, we had a week in Mumbai and then went to Delhi and to be able to see especially that part of the world and how culture surrounds the music and how you know, all of that, but also just absorbing an entirely different culture. So that was incredible. But then Mimi called me, Valdez, and said and she'd always said, Pharrell and I should work together Because y'all like that weird music, Y'all like Steely Dan.
Speaker 1:Philly Dan is weird Okay.
Speaker 2:Something like that. I'm paraphrasing. But so he wanted to kind of reorganize his whole world. So she's like he's going to call you. And he called and we talked for a really long time and I knew him a little bit socially, like we'd been, you know, at dinners or you know, but I didn't know him well. Again, like I said about Dallas, we just clicked it's the same thing with P and so we talked for a few months and then I was like, okay, I'm going to come and we're going to do this together, Like you know, really start from the ground and rebuild everything. So I told my parents and they were like who you want to work with, who you're leaving? You're leaving, you're leaving sony and you're for yeah, what exactly this massive corporation do?
Speaker 1:what yeah?
Speaker 2:obviously this before happy and all the stuff.
Speaker 2:So yeah they, you know, they eventually, you know, knew who it was, but not at that time. So so, yeah, so that was in 20, end of 2010, beginning of 2011, and that was again like a whole different world when you are working, when you're partners and managing and working directly and building around the artist being on the artist. So that was a whole learning curve. Not a huge learning curve because, as a product manager or as an A&R, you work so closely with the artist. Anyway, but, yeah, this was a whole other level and I remember the end of the first year. I was like not even the first like six months in. I was like I've never used my brain in this way because I had to learn all the stuff I had to learn about the production side of things that I didn't necessarily know, about splits, and you know all of that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, splits are for the people listening. Splits are one of the maybe the most, definitely one of the most important things in the music business, and if they're not right it can be a disaster, but if they're right you can really can make like oodles and oodles of money. Obviously, you're making hit records, you know, but that publishing thing is so key.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I had to learn all of that stuff and I did and I did it well and I was, and it was so much fun because I'm doing like brand stuff and like the collaborations and you know, the fashion things you know with the team loik and everybody, and then in the studio. He was constantly in the studio, of course, but a lot of people had thought like maybe he wasn't focused on music because, as you know, he is like the preeminent multi-hyphenate before there was really anybody even used that term where he's designing furniture and he's, you know, making records and he's you know Skinware, I mean skin skin.
Speaker 1:You know skin stuff?
Speaker 2:Skincare, yeah, like all the things. So, so, yeah, that was that was. That was incredible. On the job training, a lot of it was in terms of the production side. The rest of it was not easy, but the rest of that, you know, I definitely knew.
Speaker 1:Okay, so hold your thought. I want to. I want to cause I had this idea in my head a question. So give me. I mean it's hard to, it's probably gonna be hard to pick one, but if you can think of one, give me one moment. Watching Pharrell work in a studio where you were just like what the fuck man, how does this guy do this? How do you come up with this? Or whatever. Give me, can you tell a story about that with some artists?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying to think, I mean to pick one moment.
Speaker 2:Well this moment will be controversial, but it was a standout moment because it was all so organic and special and that was Blurred Line. We were at Glenwood Studio, robin Fitt, he wood studio, robin fitt he was working on the track, he was working on the lyrics, and then it became like a party, because it's that much energy in in the song, that much energy in the room, and p is one who would have a lot of people come in again for the energy. So that was a an incredible moment. And then the other moment was Happy.
Speaker 2:Happy came at a time that was super difficult for P to get this song right because the filmmakers are like nah, it needs to feel like this. We got to have certain energy here. So he put forward a few songs and they were like nah, it's not quite right. So he is the hardest worker. He would get up at six or 6 am, go to the studio, stay there all day. Nothing came. He would call and be like nothing came today. I'm like it's okay, just you know, go back tomorrow, it's going. Just you know, go back tomorrow, it's going to come.
Speaker 2:Did that for a few days and then he called me and said I think I got it and I was like, okay, I can't wait to hear it. So he played it for the, you know, for the director and for the producers, and his thing was get in your car and drive around and play it three times, three times in a row. And they did that and they were like, yeah, this is it. And when I heard it I was like, oh, my god, like that's gonna be, that's something special. Didn't obviously know how special it actually um was going to turn out to be, but um, but yeah, but that was, that was a really special moment. Wow, that will stand out.
Speaker 1:I recently saw a clip of I forget the name of the IG page, but there's an IG page. It's not even that popular, but they always find these clips of people working in the studio, like they had a clip of MGMT creating electrical. They were creating it, yeah, trying to fix. So they had a clip recently of Pharrell in the studio. It was him, snoop and Bishop Don Juan. It was just the three of them. And Pharrell he's playing and Snoop banging and Pharrell's like he just makes it up right on the spot.
Speaker 1:And Snoop's like keep going keep going and he's like you want to keep it and like creating this thing and I'm like Pharrell's, just he's touched, he's special, very special, clearly so special.
Speaker 2:So watch him just kind of pull down from the, what I would call pulling down from the ether would just be sitting there and it would come to him and then he likes to pace so he would get up, you know, and have the track playing and then just be like same thing, you know, like kind of mumbling to himself, and then he's like, oh, I got it. And then go in the booth and he'd lay it down, you know, for reference. But yeah, watching him create was one of the highlights of my time with him.
Speaker 1:So you're touching everything. You're touching the clothing. You're touching whatever he's doing. You're touching everything. You're touching the clothing. You're touching whatever he's doing. You're involved.
Speaker 2:All of it Many rooms, many rooms, sitting in, interfacing with incredible people Closing deals, also doing everything. At the very beginning it would be everything from, I don't know, the AC had broken in the Miami apartment, so I've got, you know, the AC, people on the line to pass off to the assistant, and then, you know, also on the other line talking to Universal Pictures. So it was it literally was everything, and that was the beauty and I saw what I was able to tell people about. That was when people would critique and say, you know, for all, you should just focus on this one thing, just you know. Focus just on the music, focus just on. And that's not. It works. When you are a creative like that, one thing, be it fashion or be it another collaboration or be it like a tech opportunity or music itself or film one pollinates the other.
Speaker 2:So everything that he was creating on the fashion side, all the creative, all the music, it all comes from that same space yes like it all comes from that same portal yeah you know. So not having those other things, I think would have been a detriment to everything absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's like they're all pulling from and working with each other. You can't kind of cut this piece off and they only do this side and don't do that side. It doesn't kind of work like that. So now there was a cons lion award kind of thing on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell me about that. We got several tell me about that so we started um, I am other, which was a creative collective, for we had a, we had a manifesto creative collective for the outcast and for the ones who don't fit and for the like. Come to us.
Speaker 2:I am other because we're other too, so that included, you know, creative projects like working on G-Star Denim project, we worked on an Adidas campaign and both of those won for one con line awards, and so that was a great time. We had a great team working on the creative side and we would be able to support a lot of the things that Pete was doing with our own creative collective, which was incredible, yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 1:I remember they had the podcast too. I enjoyed the podcast, ah yeah, other tone.
Speaker 2:The other tone. Yeah, I really liked that. I enjoyed that podcast. Yeah, other tone Other tone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like that. I like that. I like that. What is Meet the Bays? That's something about Meet the Bays, am I wrong?
Speaker 2:The Bays, the Bays. Yeah, so the Bays are. What were his backup dancers? But they were a whole moment in and of themselves. So he called them the Bays, like their own group, and we did stuff with them. We like did an adidas. I think we did an adidas campaign with them as well. But that was the two backup singers in the and um the dance that's dope.
Speaker 1:That's dope now how long how? Long did you work? Work with pharrell? You have quite a while, about nine years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, eight, like yeah, eight and a half, nine, um, and you know I'm so proud of that because people, whether on the executive talent side or whether it's the artist talent side, like rarely get even a pinch of, you know, that kind of success to be able to see that actualized. So the idea that you know he had so much in succession from the Daft Punk, you know, get Lucky, right into Blurred Lines, right into Happy, which was stratospheric, it's hard to believe that it's 13 years old. Yeah, I can't believe it.
Speaker 2:So into that and then into Kendrick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:Right, yep. So that was an incredible run and to be working with such an incredible team of people. We're all very grateful to have that time and to create what we created, legendary, legendary.
Speaker 1:What made you decide to leave?
Speaker 2:Different paths, wanting to do different things. It's also a lot. It's also it's a lot.
Speaker 2:It was a heavy, heavy, heavy. You know amount of responsibility of me to be on the go. I traveled a lot with him, a lot more than than maybe other managers do with their artists. You know consistently, and you know that was that was. You know it was. This was before, obviously before pandemic, before we were really into the Zooms. So if we needed to go to Hong Kong, like we talked to the Hong Kong people for a project we had to get on, I've contributed so much and I've achieved so much and we've created so much together Like that felt good, yeah, yeah, so, so, and we could leave it at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got you, so you're teaching now at Clive Davis School. No.
Speaker 2:I was on the Clive Davis School of Music music advisory okay board. Right, tell me about that a little bit. So many it seemed, yeah, so many. This is when jason king was the dean there and he put together an incredible group of women. It was an all-female advisory board. So it was Suzanne DePass, it was Sylvia, it was Rebecca Leon who managed Anita managed Dave Alvin managed Rosalia, it was Pooja who was at Pitchfork. It was, I mean, just an incredible assortment of women in all different spaces. I mean just an incredible assortment of women in all different spaces. So we, you know, worked together on a few projects, helped the students at the end of their you know semester projects and you know feedback and so forth. So that was a good maybe two years of doing that. And that was around the time, same time that we created Black Music Action Coalition, tell me about that.
Speaker 2:So that was 2020. So we know what 2020 was in terms of the racial reckoning at the top of the year and we're all, we're all home. We're like, you know, captive audience because you know pandemic.
Speaker 2:Can't go outside, and so we see Ahmaud Arbery killed, murdered in the street. We see Breonna murdered, breonna Taylor murdered in her house and then, a little bit after that, george Floyd, of course. So we came together you know several of us and said what can we feel so helpless? What can we do in our own backyard meaning the music business to propagate equality and equity and eradicate racism Lofty goal. But we said what can we do to work toward those things? And so that's when BMAC was born, and it was about holding the labels accountable. It was about holding the platforms accountable. You're throwing up from a blackout Tuesday, which was, you know, brianna I'm spacing on her name, but Brianna and her partner who created that, that particular movement. So we supported that and said people got to do more than put up this black square on Instagram and they've got to do more than saying that they're creating a fund, a hundred million dollar fund. Okay, well, but what are you doing? With that fund.
Speaker 2:So that's where we came in, and we've now we're a fifth year and we're getting ready to do our September yearly annual gala those who really use their platforms of the weekend a little baby who use their platforms to progress, all of the social equity, all of social justice. What are you doing for someone else to be able to move forward? And so it's. You know, the. It's the event that's on the music business calendar, that is one of the few that isn't celebrating like who you're wearing or how many tickets you sold, or what your streams were, etc. It's. It's like what did you do to help push forward equality across this?
Speaker 1:that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful um really proud of that. That's, that's amazing that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Um tell me what's next for karen v, feeling like the world is my oyster. I'm so happy that I still feel like that because, you know, sometimes as we get older, we're like stuck, you know. So I'm always open to you. Know what the next piece of inspiration is? I still love working with artists. Maybe there's a way to work with artists, you know and I'm having a few conversations that's not specifically management, but a way to support and provide opportunities for, especially for, emerging artists More BMAC, because we can't tell the spike we are, you know, so that will always continue.
Speaker 2:And you know some advising working with some. You know interesting companies, so you know we'll check some. You know interesting companies, so you know we'll check back in and and see where I've landed see, see what you know, pond, I've, I've put myself whatever it is, it's gonna be dope um I got a couple questions for you.
Speaker 1:Give me I usually say three, but it gives me two, if you can't think of three or whatever Two of your favorite artists of all time, any genre, and I give you, you ready, you ready for me, of course, of course.
Speaker 2:I give you Prince, I mean I mean. He's one, two, three, four five ten twenty.
Speaker 1:For those who can't see, he holds up a Prince portrait. No argument, right? Give me your three favorite Prince albums. His very first one.
Speaker 2:For. You. The harmony, I think he was 17. And the harmonies and the complexities and the songwriting and the production, and he did everything. Everything. He wrote, recorded, produced, arranged all of it. So For you is one of my very favorites. Controversy, I think, is an incredible body of work. 1999, I think is 1999 might be my favorite album. Okay, yeah, it might be. I think it might be. I mean, that's actually an impossible to say, but it's it's definitely.
Speaker 2:I think one of the most impactful pieces of it is it is that there is give me, your favorite gogo band I'd say like mine are going to be you know more old school, but I'd say eu. I would go see eu all the time. I didn't go see rare essences as much I saw trouble funk a lot as well but I'm pre backyard, and you know, and the newer ones, even though they're not new anymore, but the ones during yeah, the ones during my time um yeah, okay and give.
Speaker 1:Okay, and give me two or three of your favorite DJs.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, that's hard. I know you were a club head, so you know, yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to jump forward and say Stretch, Stretch is still like my very favorite DJs to this moment. Like he went from obviously you know super hip hop to expanding to kind of like eighties and nineties, um, and he did that for a while.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, he's one of my favorite DJs. Um, let's see who else? Goodness, that's a really hard question, jeff, because some of the names, to be honest, some of the names, I can't actually remember, you know. But I can tell you the it's not the DJs. I can tell you the groups like Art of Noise, okay, like the whole 808, there's a film it's called I forgot the title of it. I think it's like Introduction to the 808. There's a film it's called uh, I forgot the title of it.
Speaker 2:I think it's like introduction to the 808, uh, and it's incredible and it has all of those german artists and bands and how it influenced in the africa bombada, and then you know planet rock, and then the whole thing. But yeah, that's, that's what I would say. Of course, I'm going to think of as soon as we finish. I'm going to think of all the names.
Speaker 1:Everybody always says that. That's a hard question. Everybody always says that. Okay, we're going to end it up with one last thing. If you can give me a, I'm just going to flip it a little bit. Give me a good story about being in Mumbai. It could be musical, it could be from a great meal you ate, whatever, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been fortunate to go to India a couple of times and they were about eight years apart, about eight years apart. So the very first time I go, the beauty juxtaposed with the poverty is something that I've never seen. I'm kind of at a loss for words because it's difficult to actually put into words, but we live in a certain way in this country and even the you know, the poorest people here, far and away above the and beyond the poverty that's in. India.
Speaker 2:And that would just. It really humbled me on so many levels that so much beauty number one could come out of you know that space Concerning because of the disparity between the wealth and the poverty, where obviously few with the wealth and you know living cardboard with a little bit of tin, you know ceiling on the street, no water no, you know any of that. They would make sure that their kids were washed up. And you know going to school every day, every morning, with a smile, because they had gratitude for learning and gratitude for the human experience. So that's very heavy, but what it did when I came back is that you don't sweat the small stuff Like that's what I would come back with, that sort of attitude, and I always tried to hold on to that as closely and as tightly as I could. So the things that we get annoyed with. It's nothing to get annoyed with.
Speaker 1:Thank you Kevin, thank you Karen Vesey, thank you Jeff.
Speaker 2:Jeffery Sledge.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed this interview. I enjoyed researching you. You've done so much. I didn't know everything. I was like oh, I didn't know, I didn't know she did that too. So it was good. Now it's good to hear it from the horse's mouth, from your mouth, your, your your experience, from yourself. You don't say to just kind of read.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed this. Thank you for thank you for having me. This is so much fun. When are we going to interview you?
Speaker 1:When are we doing that show? I don't Actually, I mean maybe. Well, I mean let's figure it out, we'll figure it out, we'll figure it out, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:For sure, because your story is immense and has many twists and turns and you have many stories.
Speaker 1:So we want to hear those too. Thank you again for everything. All right, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you and I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. She's coming on. Thank you so much for having me. She's coming on. You can catch Mixed and Mastered on Apple Podcasts, spotify, iheart or wherever you get your podcasts. Hit that follow button, leave a review and tell a friend I'm your host, jeffrey Sledge. Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios.
