Mixed and Mastered
Mixed and Mastered is the podcast where the untold stories of the music industry come to life. Hosted by Jeffrey Sledge, a veteran music executive and former VP of A&R at Atlantic Records and Jive Records, each episode dives deep into the journeys, challenges, and triumphs of the people shaping the sound of today. From label executives and producers to artists, songwriters, and managers, Jeffrey brings you behind the scenes to meet the minds driving the industry forward. There’s a gap in the marketplace for these voices, and Mixed and Mastered is here to fill it—one conversation at a time. Because the best stories are told by those who lived them.
Mixed and Mastered
Terrell Jones
This week on Mixed and Mastered, Harlem-born stylist Terrell Jones pulls back the curtain on his journey from the block to the big stage, styling icons like Mary J. Blige and Fat Joe. Terrell breaks down how growing up in Harlem shaped his eye, why individuality is everything in fashion, and how the game has changed in the age of social media.
From wild stories with fashion legends to building a new lane in the art world, Terrell keeps it real about creativity, culture, and staying true to your style.
Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio, and hosted by music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to the discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @MixedandMasteredPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://mixedandmasteredpod.buzzsprout.com/
Today, on Mixed and Mastered, we're talking with Harlem's own Terrell Jones, aka Terrellish. He took DJ Khaled and Fat Joe and made them into fashion icons. 20 years in, terrell dresses stars and is putting hip-hop style into luxury fashion. This is Mixed and Mastered with Terrell Jones. Welcome to Mixed and Mastered, the podcast where the stories of the music industry come to life. I'm Jeffrey Sledge, bringing you real conversations with the people who have shaped the sound of music. We're pulling back the curtain on what it takes to make it in the music business. These are the stories you won't hear anywhere else, told by the people who live there. This is Mixed and Mastered. Hello, mixed and Mastered with a master stylist, terrell Jones, harlem's own. What's up, rel? What's up, man? How you doing? I'm good. You want me to call you Rel, relish. Terrell, what do you like best? It doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Everyone knows me as a mole. You know, some people call me Relish, some people call me Terrell Relly it all works Relly, relly, rel.
Speaker 1:So, with Mr Master, what I've been doing is talking to I think I explained to you talking to music executives. As of now, everybody I've talked to has worked in a label in some capacity. I've talked to, like, my friend, nicole, who was the head of Geffen Records. I've talked to Sean C, who you know from Harlem, who worked as an A&R person, and on and on and on Whitney Gail Bento, who worked at several labels too, on and on Whitney, whitney Gail Bento, who worked at several labels too.
Speaker 1:But I also want to do this show to show all facets of the music industry. So I know one of the things now which has really gotten popular in my opinion you might correct me if I'm wrong over the past few years is more and more kids have gotten deeper into fashion and more and more kids are going to be stylists. And I don't, I don't even know the path to get to that, but you are a stylist. You've been a stylist for many, many years. You styled some of the biggest names in in in the industry on, you know and I. So I wanted to talk to you because I wanted you to tell your story Number one, and so I wanted to talk to you because I wanted you to tell your story number one and it's kind of maybe in telling your story kids will kind of catch some jewels on how to maybe pursue their dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I definitely want to share my story, but I feel like my story is one that no longer exists anymore because obviously I've started. I've been in this for 25 years. So 25 years ago, the way that you actually had entree to the music industry or to the fashion industry was totally different than what it is today, because this was pre-social media. I know my story, but today I think that it's a. I just think it's a completely different ballgame.
Speaker 1:But my story is actually no, no no, we're going to start from the beginning now. We're gonna start from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're born and raised in harlem, new york yes, I'm born and raised in harlem, which tell me tell me about growing up in harlem, just as the real the kid harlem not born and raised in harlem to me is like the mecca of fashion.
Speaker 2:so, as most people in the gucci days were introduced I mean, when I'm talking about, I'm talking about around the globe were being introduced to Dapper Dan, that was someone who was making, like my Easter clothes, my graduation clothes, growing up as a kid. So I have clothes from Dapper probably dating back to like five years old if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1:Wow, so you got some classic material.
Speaker 2:I have classic materials and I mean this is before you were doing like gucci and louis vuitton and finney and mcm dap actually used to do custom suits for myself I'm a twin, so for myself and my brother, so that was something that I grew up with. Um, growing up in harlem, obviously I feel like that's like the mecca or the capital of fashion, different layers and levels of fashion, so I can just take you through like a weekend in Harlem. So Friday, saturdays, obviously you had the flyest people come out, meaning dressed in the best designers, the furs, the leathers, the cars. I mean it was a complete lifestyle. And then you had.
Speaker 2:I grew up. My grandmother was in the block of Abyssinia, which is a famous church in Harlem. For me, that was where I was actually able to also further my connection with fashion, because you saw people getting dressed up for church. This is when people got dressed for church. When I say from head to toe, I mean from head to toe.
Speaker 2:So women had on gloves, they wore hats, they wore amazing hosiery, they wore beautiful dresses, they wore fur coats. My grandmother and my great-grandmother were one of those women, so that was when you were really able to see who actually had style, who actually exuded a certain level of style. It was that transition, that turning point for me, which to me was my introduction to sort of kind of high fashion style, I mean. Andre. Leontali, I mean Andre Leontali. Everyone knows the great Andre Leontali. Rest in peace, of course, of course, of course.
Speaker 1:He was a member of Abyssinian. Yeah, because I used to see him in the morning sometime on 145th. Yeah, I'd be out like getting breakfast or whatever Sunday morning. I'd see him driving. He had like a Benz. I'd see him driving. He had a Benz. I'd see him driving down for a minute to go into Abyssinian. I've seen him several times in Harlem.
Speaker 2:So that speaks for itself as to where what I was able to receive, the gift that I was able to receive just from being born and raised in Harlem and being connected to the church community, and what church had to offer style and high fashion and luxury for our community.
Speaker 1:You know, no one else was high fashion but more street wear. That I don't think they do anymore. I know you remember. You remember Easter people would go to Times Square. Yes, they would put on their leather suits or whatever. They'd fly. And Easter Sunday evenings at Times Square would be like this gathering of kids from all boroughs because obviously Times Square is the midpoint where you can get to any there from any borough and all these kids would just be walking around 42nd Street and taking the pictures with the. You know that you bought in the little folder thing and all that. I remember that too.
Speaker 2:That was our runway back then. Yes, so in my generation we did Times Square, but then we also had the car show at Jacob Javits Convention Center, so that was one place that you were going. You actually had 125th Street where all the street vendors were out, and so you went there. If you were going to like a movie theater or something like that, you went to carnivals. But what was most important, like you said about easter sunday, was your after church outfit. That's what to put on your great leather jacket. That's what you were able to put on your amazing denim suit. That's what you were able to get off your great. Whatever the footwear of the time was, whether they were jordans or patrick ewins or deodorants, whatever it was that was your moment to shine to me. Me, that was the original. In one day, that was Fashion Week.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, I wanted to talk to you about a couple things. We know, as you discussed, the black church is very influential in fashion. We talked about Times Square and Jacob Javis and all that. Another thing that was influential in fashion and we you know, obviously we just talked about times square and jacob javis and all that, but another thing that was influential, is influential in fashion. The price is still now is high school, high school, yes.
Speaker 2:So tell me about your high school experiences in fashion and you know like, tell me about that as well well before I have to bring you back to before I even got to high school, because my family, we grew up, they uh, they uh, my parents put us in Catholic school, okay, so I only made it to fourth grade in this particular school when my my brother and my my sister, they continued and went on, but I only made it to fourth grade and my mom asked me what's going on? Why don't you want to attend Catholic school anymore? And I said to her um, and thank God for my mother for listening to me I said to her I no longer want to wear the same clothes every day.
Speaker 2:And she said to me Terrell, school is not a fashion show, so that's not a good enough reason. But when the school year was, actually when it was time to go back, she actually did not enroll me and she allowed me to go to public school, which is where I was actually able to discover my own sense of style, Because it't work my spirit nor my personality to be in a classroom of 32 people dressed just alike. That I was probably nine years old. At nine years old, I knew that that just didn't feel good to me and that I needed to discover, dig deeper within myself. And obviously at that moment now I'm able to say as a grown man, at 46 years old, I just needed to find my identity. But it was just very early that I knew that I needed, I had my own identity. It was just a matter of discovering it, and discovering it through style and through fashion.
Speaker 1:So was that kind of at the point where you realized I mean, you're nine, so you don't really know, but it's like kind of like, this is what I kind of want to do, but I don't really know what it is. You have a passion Did. This is what I kind of want to do, but I don't really know what it is. You have a passion, you start to get a passion for fashion.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had a passion for fashion, obviously, because, like my mother said, school had become my fashion show and that was my way to. That was the language that I spoke, so that was my way to communicate, that was the way that I expressed myself. So it was all through fashion, and that was when I was in fifth grade that I realized this is who Terrell is, or this is who Terrell is becoming, and this is one layer of me, but this is the layer that I'm choosing right now. That will be my form of communication, the language that I would speak for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:And it was fashion and I definitely knew that at five years old I didn't know it would be a career path for me, but I definitely knew that it was a part of me that was dying to be brought to life. So take me to. Let's move up a few years. Take me to how you, because I read you were working at Iceberg. You were VP at Iceberg. Yes, tell me how you got into. For those who don't know Iceberg, I think they're still around. It was a clothing line that was very popular in the 90s to the 2000s. I guess it was a very popular clothing line and I want to know how you got to that point.
Speaker 2:That was also an interesting time for me. So, iceberg, I got there because a dear friend of mine who was also a fashion person told me that there's a job opening and it was either Women's Wear Daily or DNA and they're looking for a receptionist. And I was like, oh, I'm open to, I just want to work in a showroom. I would love to just work in a fashion house, so I'll take a position as a receptionist in this showroom. I would love to just work in a fashion house, so I'll take a position as a receptionist in this showroom. I've gone so obviously this is out of a newspaper, this is out of a fashion paper back then. So that sort of kind of unheard of today. That's how you get your job. So I apply and I get a call and I go in for the interview. The interview was very special in itself because as soon as I got to the interview they probably asked me two or three questions and I'll never forget I wore Burberry to this interview. They never said what fashion house or anything. They actually used the umbrella of the house, so they never said that it was the iceberg label, but sort of kind of just like the head of the house. So you don't know where, you don't really know what you're interviewing for. They gave me an outfit and said I know this is strange, but would you mind trying this on for us? And I'm like sure. So I go into the bathroom and I change and I try on this outfit for him and I come out and she says I'm so sorry, I know this is probably. You're probably thinking I'm a crazy person, but can you walk in that other room and just show it to some people in there? And I'm just like, okay, I go in and I walk and I show them the outfit, and the people look and they nod their head and they're like, oh, that's amazing. And she says, okay.
Speaker 2:Then I go back in the interview room and she said would you do me another favor? I said, yeah, what is it? She said would you try on something else for me? And I said what do you want me to try on? She said just look at that rack. Anything you want, just do it your way. So I go and I grab some stuff really quickly and I go in the bathroom and I change and I throw a sweater over my shoulder and she says will you also go in there and show it to those gentlemen sitting at the table, and I go and I show it to them and that's it. And then she says you've been amazing, thank, and that's it. And then she says you've been amazing. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Interview's over. By the time I get home, at that point in life, you had an answering machine. I had a voice message saying we'd love to meet you again, Can you come back tomorrow? And I'm like sure, that's fine, I go back tomorrow. And she says, well, so I want to offer you a position. But I want to offer you a very weird position. And I said, okay, she said so, I want you to be the receptionist part time. But I also want to know if you could be a fit model for me. Because what you did in the interview was you sold some clothing. Not only did you sell the clothes, those were buyers from very important stores and I'm like, OK, she said so, they brought what you sold which was canceled out of the collection. But they also said that we need to have you as the fit model because you actually brought the clothes to life and that was when I actually got in the iceberg family and then it sort of kind of took off from there.
Speaker 2:So I never actually really was able to become the receptionist. They structured everything around me. A receptionist normally sat at a desk and answer the phone. I never had a desk. They brought a cordless phone for me and they were like answer the phone when you can, but we're back to back in appointments and it's and it's buying season and we just want you to model. And yeah, we just want you to model. And I'm like, okay, fine. And then from there they were going to a convention called magic in Las Vegas and the president of the company said so my sales ladies told me that they'll quit if they can't bring you to magic with them. And I'm like, huh. And he's like, yeah, so can you go to Las Vegas? And I'm like I guess.
Speaker 2:So he's like whatever you need, we'll pay you extra whatever you need, but they said that they will not want to go if you can't go with them, and that's how it all began.
Speaker 1:That is an amazing story. Now, how old are you at this time? I'm.
Speaker 2:At this time. I'm probably about, maybe about 23.
Speaker 1:Wow, 23. And that was your entree into, like the, I guess, the corporate air quotes side of fashion very crazy life.
Speaker 2:I went to performing arts high school, so I was a dance major, so I thought that I was going to. I was 1000% sure that I was going to grow up and become a professional dancer. And there was this woman and she had the most amazing style and she was about a year or two ahead of me and she'd like graduated. And when she graduated, I hadn't. I didn't see her anymore. And then one day she came back around and she just had the most amazing style and she was the most beautiful girl you've ever seen. She said to me you have such great style, you should like help me out one day. My boyfriend's a singer. And I'm like, oh yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2:And next thing, you know, her boyfriend was at the time. I want to make sure I have it right. Her boyfriend was Jojo of Jodeci. He had done a music video. I saw her running to the store and she had on a Jodeci jacket when they did airbrushing and his face was in the back. And I'm like, holy shit, this is really her boyfriend. And then one day I was in the elevator. No, no, no. She said to me one day you should come to my house and visit me. I'm actually working and I'm dressing someone and I could really use your help, and I said, okay, cool. So I go to her house and I meet her, and the person that she's dressing and she needs my help with happens to be Mary J Blige, and that's where it all went.
Speaker 1:That's how it all began. Now are Is this time, or is this before or after, or is it kind of simultaneous?
Speaker 2:No, I'm actually. This is to be honest with you. This is actually right before I actually got to Iceberg. Then she tells me about the paper. So I help her once or twice with Mary. Then she tells me about the position. I go and get this job at Iceberg. Then she comes back for me. But I have a job and I go and I just go work and help her with Mary J Lodge Wow. And I was generous to me, so what I did at that time was remember. I'm a fit model at Iceberg.
Speaker 2:I don't have like a position. Season had ended, selling season, buying season had ended, and so I said to them so what's next? And they said to me what do you want to do next? And I said, oh, I would love to like work in PR. The president of the company said so you should just assist a girl in PR office. I go and I assist her.
Speaker 2:I call my friend who works with Mary, and Mary has something really big coming up and I said you should let us dress her. We dressed Mary for the VMAs that year and my boss was so excited. He said I need you to go to Milan because the owners of the company want to know who got Mary J Blige to wear these clothes. So you should actually go to the runway show in September. And when I got there he offered me a position as the head of PR and celebrity wardrobing for the brand. So again, I was no longer. But that was bad. It was a gift and a curse, because then I was no longer going to be able to be the fit model for the sales team. So the sales team but the public relations department was you know great.
Speaker 1:So you put Mary in a whole iceberg fit for that.
Speaker 2:And then we had just I, just it was just the. It was just divine timing. At that time little Kim was going on with I want to say maybe with Cisco, and I got in touch with Hillary and Hillary and I we had become very friends. Hillary West was Lil' Kim's manager at that time and she said to me you should design our tour clothes Like you should design our tour jackets. And I said oh, we should definitely do them.
Speaker 2:I said, but I don't want to do traditional tour jackets and I said, oh, we should definitely do them. I said, but I don't want to do traditional tour jackets, I want them to be a little bit more little kim. She said what do you mean? I said, like we'd like them in leather and maybe, like we can like, stud out the queen b logo on the back. I work with italy. We design these jackets. Kim loves this jacket. She wears this jacket. Iceberg loves the kim's in the jacket, so, so that leads to Lil' Kim having an Iceberg campaign. All because I was, like Kim's, a girl.
Speaker 1:So at this point, do you even know you're actually being a stylist or are you just doing your thing, like you know, just kind of like? Are you being a stylist or are you just like yo, I'm working with Iceberg and I'm hooking my peoples up and you know, of course I'm being compensated. But am I, are you being?
Speaker 1:I say that because when I started in the music business, I tell people like my first job, I got the job, got blessed, and the owner of that label his name is Stu Fine he gave me his binder and he said call all these people every week. So I was calling you know record stores and you know magazines and radio stations, because it was just a binder full of jumbled stuff. So I say I'm saying all that to say I didn't know really that I was being a promotion person and our person and I was just calling people. So, and I want to know it was like that with you you just kind of I'm in fashion, so I want to do something. That's doing my thing. Or did you realize you were actually styling people?
Speaker 2:No, I'm in fashion so I want to do something that's doing my thing. Or did you realize you were actually styling people? No, I didn't realize it. I realized I was having the time of my life and I realized that didn't have a job, that I actually got up to do something that I love every day and anything that I actually felt like connected with the brand or connected with my spirit. I would actually pick up the phone and sort of kind of make it happen. So at that time there was a huge show called 106 and Park and it came on every day. So I said I like this show, I watch this show, I should dress them. I get in touch with their stylist. She puts the clothes on them. Obviously it makes great publicity and I'm like that's really cool.
Speaker 2:And then there was someone who was wearing Iceberg at the time who I had never met. I had I heard of about him but I had never met him. And it just so happens to be Trick Daddy. Trick Daddy's coming to New York to do 106 and Park with Trina and they're looking for something to wear. So one of your people, joy Brown, actually says I don't know, I forget how we connect, but Joy gets in touch with me, I'm like sure, send them over, I'd love to dress them. They literally showed up at my door, trick Daddy and Trina alone. No security. I dressed them. I send them on their way to do a taping of 106 and Park. They do it. Joy calls me the next day and says that was amazing, I have a job for you. Are you interested? And I said yeah sure.
Speaker 2:I said I actually have a job. I work here, this is my job. She said but I have a job for you. You're like a stylist too, right, and I'm like, yeah, and I'm like I have an artist who's coming from Jamaica and, in the most respectful way, but we want him to look a little bit more Americanized. Do you think you can do that? And I said, absolutely Fast forward. It's Sean Paul and I work at Iceberg style. Sean Paul, a lot of it in Iceberg and everything just worked.
Speaker 1:So Iceberg is this you're a golden child of Iceberg, I'm a golden child of Iceberg. So how long did you work at Iceberg?
Speaker 2:I stayed there for about six or seven years.
Speaker 1:So you were for a while.
Speaker 2:Six or seven years and obviously times had changed and when they called it urban fashion, that was sort of kind of taking a dip and you know the Sean Johns, we were the only ones that were actually produced out of Italy. Everyone else was sort of kind of you know, on the American side of it. So they had layoffs and I was actually one of the people in the layoffs and at that moment I'm like what the hell am I going to do? I mean, do I go work?
Speaker 2:for Sean John? Do I go work for Fat Farm? Do I go work for Rockaware? And a friend of both of ours, bevy Smith, says no, you don't have a job, you work for yourself. And I'm like that's impossible. And she literally takes me to 57th Street, to Bergdorf, and we go. No, actually it was Barney's, I'm sorry. We go and we got business cards made. Of course they have to be made in Barney's. And that's when I realized I was a stylist, when she took me and brought me a home fax machine and I got a laptop and a desk for my home office and business cards and she said that's your new, this is your new life. And that's why I was a stylist. After all the styling I had done, I mean I was with everyone. I was with Tweet, I've been with Mary J Blige, I've been with Sean Paul, I've done everything that you could think of, I've done tons of editorial. But it wasn't until that moment when that door closed that I realized I guess I am a stylist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, wow. So when you started your styling business, who was your first client?
Speaker 2:When I started my styling business, who was my first client? I would have to say probably.
Speaker 1:Fat Joe. Okay, and how did that come together? Because I know you guys still work together now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that came together through his wife. We met through a mutual friend, his wife and I Actually the same woman that actually brought me on for Mary. She was still my friend and she introduced me to his wife one day. She said his wife, I have Fat Joe's wife and she's looking for an outfit and I know you'll be perfect, you know exactly what to do. And so I met her in Soho and I took a shop in. We did it, it was done, and then she said no. She said, oh, okay, I have a husband and he's a big guy. Maybe one day you can dress him. She actually picks me up the next day we go and we hang out. She said do you know how to dress big guys? I said yeah. She said okay, my husband's fat Joe.
Speaker 1:And you didn't even know Joe was her husband.
Speaker 2:I didn't put two together. No, I didn't really put the two together. I just knew she was really lovely and we're still together. Literally, we just went over something today, so that's about 20 years later.
Speaker 1:So tell me about. That's so many questions I'm trying to First of all tell me about styling Joe, because he was much heavier at that point than he is now. How was that hard to do? Did you have to do a lot of custom stuff, or I?
Speaker 2:did a lot of custom. Joe was very interesting for me because he had such a relationship with style. I was very used to introducing people to new things and the clients that I obviously had dealt with then they had a sense of style, but it was just easier. We also had the challenge of size and so the limitations. So I had tons of limitations with Joe at that particular time, but he had such a relationship with style that it made up for it. So at that particular time my very first job with him was a video with J-Lo, and J-Lo was she was J-Lo. She still is J-Lo, but she was J-Lo.
Speaker 1:That's when she first blew up. Blew up, blew up, yeah.
Speaker 2:She'd blown up. And she shows up and she comes on the trailer with Marc Anthony and she's like what are you going to wear? And Joe's like oh, terrell, show what you, you know, show what we're doing. And we've done all these amazing custom leather jackets with chinchilla trim hoods and all this amazing stuff. Very street, very Joe, but very elevated.
Speaker 2:And J-Lo loved it. She was like oh, I'm going to change, I have a jacket like that. Her stylist and her stylist switches it up and she switches her whole thing up and joe's like you know, that's j-lo. And I'm like, yeah, I know. He's like she loved it and I'm like, yeah, I know. And so that was our relationship, because what we got to do which I feel like doesn't really exist much today is we got to create and build together, and and Joe always came to me with tons of trust and he was always willing to try. So that's how we were able to build a great, great relationship together, because Joe was always willing to try and he always wanted to do something out of the box, even when he was a man of a certain size.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's interesting. You say that because I don't know how things are now. I know they're not the same, but back then, as an A&R person, you'd go to all the video shoots of your artists and any of the other artists on the label, and so I remember watching people like June Ambrose, for example, who worked with R Kelly very closely back then, and some others like, and they'd bring all this stuff on and, like you said, those the artists back then were nobody really wanted to look like each other. No, everybody wanted to have their own thing. Like she really put robin in all these kind of crazy things the rob was always down to like. You know, let's see what it looks like when it wears. Now it feels like so many of the artists. Now they all they have to always wear like rick owens and all out to wear like certain, almost like uniform, you know, whereas back then everybody was really trying to be their own individual self.
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Speaker 1:The people you're working now. Are they still willing to try new things or are they kind of a little gun shy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I definitely scaled my business back in the past, maybe like in the past five years. I definitely scaled it back because it's just not the same as we. It's just nothing about anything is the same. Nothing is the same and this doesn't have to do with COVID, I'm just thinking about the industry and itself. Yeah, it's changed completely and obviously, unfortunately, a lot of that joy for me and the creativity has definitely no longer exist.
Speaker 2:So for, yes, I'm fortunate that I still am able to create some great things with Joe. Joe does have his own sense of style, absolutely, and DJ Khaled I've been with.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that happened through Joe, so when I met I was going to ask you tell us about the DJ Khaled, because I know you've worked with him forever too.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've been with Khaled about 17 or 18 years. We also spoke this morning. So shout out to Khaled uh, he, joe, called me maybe one night about 2 am and I answered the phone and he says, hey, are you sleeping?
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, I mean I am, but like no. And he says I have somebody for you and he's going to be a really big star and he needs a stylist. And he puts Khaled on the phone and Khaled's like, hey, he's the same Khaled that he is today. I love what you do with Joe and I want you to dress me and I want you to be my stylist. And I said, okay, cool. And at this time he didn't have a record deal, but he had a really big birthday party once a year, and so he said I'm going to fly you down and dress me for my birthday party.
Speaker 1:In Miami.
Speaker 2:Hey, cool. And at that time I mean Joe is Joe, so I'm used to options. And it was one outfit. I never met him and I was flying down to his birthday and I did it. And I flew down to his birthday and I dressed it. And I flew down to his birthday and I dressed him and he said to me when I was leaving you're going to be when I become famous, You're going to be my stylist, You'll be my stylist, You'll be my designer. And of course I'm like, yeah, whatever, Everyone says that. And 18 years later and I think this is now his seventh studio album, I have to say he was a man of his word.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful man. So I want to. I want to say he was a man of his word. That's beautiful man. So I want to jump around a little bit, because I was reading up and I saw you also worked with Tracee Ellis Ross and you've worked with Zoe Zardana, so I want to talk. How did those come about?
Speaker 2:Those were editorial jobs which were also really amazing and important to me in my career because obviously I had jobs that were big paying jobs, but I was also, at the same time, trying to find balance of jobs that had some real good credibility to them. So I had gotten hired. Vibe magazine was actually launching a women's Vibe magazine which was called Vibe Vixen, and Tracee Ellis Ross was going to be the face. She was on the cover of it. Shout out to Mimi Valdez. Mimi Valdez was the editor-in-chief and this was her baby.
Speaker 2:And she said I think that you could do something really amazing with Tracy. And that was probably one of my most challenging jobs to this day, but it was one of my most gratifying jobs because Tracy she's actually a real person of style. She's a woman who actually For real Fashion editor before I mean, obviously her mother is Diana Ross. So there was no stone left unturned when it came to doing something for Tracee Ellis Ross. And thank God for good mentorship and great people in your life. Because again, bevy Smith came in and she said I think you're the man for this job and I think you can do this some real justice. And I said but how she sees everything. She probably has everything. And she said, no, just do vintage.
Speaker 2:And I said, okay, cool, and Bevy introduced me to someone who actually had an amazing collection of vintage clothing, even some of Diana Ross's old clothing and all of this stuff, some old stuff from Grace Jones, some old stuff, some old Patrick Kelly, some old Halston. I pulled all this vintage stuff and I remember Tracy calling me and saying hey, so I'm traveling. I think she might have been doing Girlfriends at the time and my goal was to bring a lot of stuff with me, but I literally am traveling and I only have one pair of my favorite jeans with me and a pair of shoes. You think we'll be OK? And I said I think we will be OK. And I'll never forget the way she lit up when she arrived to see the rack. I want to wear it all. And it was supposed to be like maybe two photos and I think we shot about six different outfits.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, yeah. So tell me, tell me, like, is there a? There is like? Tell me, like, the science behind styling. Like if you were talking to me and I was a 14 year old kid 16 year old kid, you know, and I was kind of I think that's what I want to do is there a science behind it? Like, how do you like? Again, you, I know you try to give each person their own thing. You know you're not like, you know. So how do you like? Again, I know you try to give each person their own thing? You know you're not like, you know. So how do you kind of look at it?
Speaker 1:Tracy, you kind of told that story. But how do you look at some of your clients and say I think they'd be good at doing this, or they'd be good at doing that, wearing this or wearing that? I know there's a math behind it. See, I think a lot of people think, as a stylist, you're just grabbing clothes with labels on them and you know, and you just put this on. But I know you are a scientist with this, you're like a master at this craft. You've done your 10,000 hours right. So I want you to kind of explain that, so people kind of know there's more to it than just going buying some hot shit at the mall.
Speaker 2:I think the science actually is the gift, and the gift is the style and being able to see style in everything and in everyone. I think everyone has a sense of style. I look at any and every person and I'm able to pull something from that. That's one of my reasons for still being a lover of riding the subway or sitting outside of the cafe anywhere where I can people watch, because for me that's inspiration. So the kid who wears, the kid who gets out of school, that's style, because he's normally a little undone. His shirt might be out of his pants, his book bag is hanging off, he might have his jacket tucked in his book bag, his tie may be loose or lost. To me, that style it's just. Where does it fit?
Speaker 2:I get that job to dress that kid in a music video or that kid in a commercial or a movie I automatically have my canvas, I automatically have the blueprint for that particular type of style, because I got that from watching a kid jump off the bus running to his parents or hanging out with his friends and I was able to pick up that style and store it. So I think it's just being able to see style in everything. Not only that, I think the science today that still works for me is knowing that everybody has their own individuality and finding your own individual style.
Speaker 1:Not everyone can wear a hat.
Speaker 2:Not everyone can wear glasses, not everyone looks good in a track suit, not everyone looks good in print, certain people don't work in colors, so there are just. It's basically like a scrambled puzzle and every time. You should be able to put that puzzle together and literally come, but the outcome should be a different picture with each, with each try.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:That's my science.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's your science, so let let me. I want to go back a little bit with, uh, mr tally. Did you get to spend any time with him and talk to him about fashion, or did you just kind of see the church?
Speaker 2:my first interaction with them was me walking down madison avenue one day and looking in the window of harry winston I don't know what I had on, but obviously my office was really close to there and he looked at me and he said you look amazing. Wow, I don't think I really knew who he was at that time. I knew I knew something about him, but I don't think I connected the dots completely. The next time that I'd actually encountered him was actually at Fashion Week, going to a show, and I might have had on a fur coat. And he just came over to me, tapped me on the shoulder and said can I take a picture of you? And I said yes, and he took the photo of me and then Bevy said that's Andre. That's a big deal. If he wants to take a picture of you, that's a big deal. And then, maybe about a week or two later, bill Cunningham had actually, uh, serviced the picture of the New York Times, which happened to be the biggest picture in the style section, and it was me wow.
Speaker 1:So again for those who don't know, bill Cunningham was a fashion photographer who would walk around. This dude he was, he was early, like what, the kids not doing social media? He was doing that in print. He would literally, you know, he would kind of dress down and he would just walk around the street and if you had some fly stuff on he'd take a picture and he'd take pictures of all these people. And sometimes he'd go to events and just take pictures. He was very correctly, if I'm wrong, but he was kind of very removed, he just took pictures. He wasn't like trying to be a celebrity, he was trying to take pictures.
Speaker 2:That was a hobby job he actually made. He was a hat maker. He was a millinery, so he made hats. That was his actual career. This was a hobby for him just to capture photos and he was just so good at it because of his innate eye and his sense of style. New York Times has its own section and that's how Bill Cunningham actually became the person. But in one year I think Bill Cunningham has shot me and put me in the New York Times style section three times.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Which I heard is pretty unheard of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's crazy. One time was crazy, three is amazing.
Speaker 2:One time and I don't even think I brought the paper, but I don't think maybe I didn't buy it this particular day. And of course again we'll hear about a zillion times, probably because she's just that intertwined with my life. Bevy calls me on a Monday morning in my office and says did you get the newspaper? And I said no. She says I need you to go out and get the Sunday Times. So I run out of my office and I get the Sunday Times and I call her back and she says now go to the style section. I go to the style section and the biggest picture on the page is me and she, I told you and I'm like oh, wow, wow.
Speaker 1:So what is your take on, like you said, everything's changed, everything's different now, where fashion is now and where it's going, because again, like I said, from the outside, looking in, it's become a thing Like it was a thing. But now it's really become a thing like, especially because of the advent of social media, like everybody wants to take pictures in their fits and everybody wants to get dressed up and people are, like you know, going to paris, that they, rappers or not, are going to paris now for the fashion shows and all that stuff which wasn't happening um a few years ago. So what's your take on where fashion is going now and how is it affecting you as a stylist? Besides the money being different, just where do you see it going?
Speaker 2:I won't say it's affecting me because, um, I believe in transition and I also believe in outgrowing things, so I and I'm also open to change. Okay, it hasn't had this affected me personally as far as like the way that I used to create, but after, after 25 years, I think that it was just time for me to transition and to do some different things, which is what I'm working on now, and that's totally fine. I'm excited for this new generation. What I will say to them is utilize your access, not just for now, but to make a change, have some impact in it. So in my time of coming up, it wasn't really common to work hands-on with the actual designers. That wasn't really a thing. I mean, we were lucky. We very rarely could even get into the fashion houses when we were young stylists.
Speaker 2:That's why it was important for me to make my mark and hold my seat at Iceberg, because I was able to let the Sybil Penick needed to do because they didn't have, they weren't really offered the resources as easily as everyone else and you weren't really given access to a showroom unless you were doing a high-end editorial. So if it wasn't your Vogue, your Bazaar, your InStyle I will say Vibe Magazine, if it wasn't one of those publications, you weren't really granted the key to get through them. So now you actually can get in. You can get in easy and not only can you get in, you can work hand in hand with the designer or the creative director of the house. So for me, I'm saying utilize that. Utilize it because I actually do so. Now, when I, when Dolce Gabbana or someone wants to work with me, I work directly with Dolce and I tell them exactly what I want to see for my client, because no one knows my client better than I do. So I say this is what looks good on Callie, and I want to source the fabrics and I want to tell you the silhouettes and I want to work with you. And it is a partnership, which is a beautiful thing, but it's an access, it's an opportunity that didn't always exist. So I hold great pride when I actually do have those opportunities to really create Because, again, I do believe that we shape the culture.
Speaker 2:We shape the culture, and one of my exiting positions at Iceberg was basically sort of kind of like collection approval.
Speaker 2:So what I would do is when.
Speaker 2:What I would do was I would shop here in New York City or anywhere that I wanted to shop, and I would travel with a bunch of clothes over to Italy to actually give them what was hot, wow, basically share what was moving the needle culturally in the States, Because these designers at that time they weren't coming to the, they weren't coming to the U? S. So I realized at that moment a shift that happened because remember, I don't know if you know, but I used to look to Italy, to Europe, to Paris, all those to basically that's where I thought that I would feed from. But once I realized how important and powerful my culture was and how we were shaping it and how we were actually driving that train, I realized, oh, there's a lot of power in this, because it's just our personal, innate style, it's not really creating anything, it's what you do with what's already created. So I say, take advantage of all the opportunity that they have today. Work very closely with the designers, not only use your style, use your voice.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you I already know your answer, but I'm going to ask you like, so, seeing two Harlemites younger Harlemites, killing it, a$ap Rocky, sienna, taylor, right, these are two born and bred harlemites came, came up through it and now we're like at pinnacles in the fashion world as long as as well other things are doing with acting and stuff like that. But like, do you, have you had a lot of interaction with them and have you kind of helped guide them along the way or get a chance to talk about what they're doing?
Speaker 2:I haven't had to guide them because they obviously they they've been, they're doing. I haven't had to guide them because they obviously they've been. They're bred from the same blueprint as themselves. They actually have it, they have an idea. Honestly, I think that they are actually today's blueprint for how people should actually conduct themselves in a room full of style, because they're going to yeah, break that down, break that down.
Speaker 2:I think that they have their own style and I think that they're style leaders and I think that what they do is they take their style over to Europe and they allow Europe to feed off of what they deliver, what they bring to the table. Because Tiana is that girl who's very diverse in her style. In her style she can do anything from Adidas track suit with some great construction boots or a head to toe Rick Owens look. What I think Tiana's power is is bringing it all to life. She can wear anything. Why? Because she's Tiana. Also, why Because she's from Harlem and Harlem has a very special relationship with style. I mean, tiana is birthed from like a very stylish mother. I'm sure ASAP comes from a bunch of style and his uncles Everyone has great style in his family. So they actually have the ownership, they actually own their own style, which is why they're able to then go and bring other people's vision and style to life. So they're like the modern mannequins, but they actually come with style.
Speaker 1:That's actually a good phrase. You need to trademark that modern mannequins. That was dope, that was dope. Um, now you also design. Yes, so talk about how you you got into that and what you, what you've done with that. That.
Speaker 2:So I have tons of respect and admiration for actual designers by trade and I love and respect them so much because it's just such a gift. I was led to design. I was forced to design because my resources were so limited, so what I would do is I would actually go take myself down to the garment industry and district, rather, and I would actually. I learned to source fabrics myself. I learned, I taught myself how to source fabrics, how to source zippers, how to create buttons, lining and anything that you could think of, from A to Z, any tool that I would need to create something for something, not just something, something special for my clients. So I am a creator because I give a designer their credit that I don't want to ever sit in the seat of.
Speaker 2:I'm a designer and they've gone to school and they've studied and there's a whole guide in history to what they do in a magic I create.
Speaker 2:So what I do is I have an idea in my mind and what my job is to then bring it to life and how I bring it to life. I bring it to life through design. So once I source fabrics, I play with sketches or work with the sketch artists and take everything that's in my head and I have them bring that to paper. So they put pen to paper and they bring that together for me, and then I take that and I go sit with a tailor or a master seamstress and someone who actually can obviously again take what was in my head, which is now transferred to this paper, which will now be transferred to actual garments which then become my designs.
Speaker 1:Would you suggest that that be a? I was going to say path, but not the right term a skill a skill that somebody young trying to get into it should kind of have. I mean, maybe they're not naturally gifted like you, but it's almost like just kind of knowing how to do it, even if they don't become actual designers. It's kind of knowing the process of it.
Speaker 2:I encourage them to just learn the basics of it being able to have a conversation about fabric, being able to source, being able to understand the difference in the teeth and zippers, being able to understand what you can do with a button and just basically expanding your resources. It's really just creating what doesn't exist. That's that I thrive off of A lot of my ideas, a lot of my designs. I dream about them, so God gives them to me in a dream. However, it works.
Speaker 2:In my dream I could see someone or be watching something on TV, but what locks in with me is what someone has on. And then I wake up and I write it down. Or I wake up and when I start my day, I say, ok, I have a dream about this multicolor, whatever jacket. I'm going to go create that. And so that leads me down then to source fabrics and once those fabrics, I then take that idea that I dreamt about and I say I want to see how I play with it and I do it, and that's that's what happens. And then at that point I have something that I've designed. It's literally a one of a kind, because it doesn't exist anywhere. I only saw it in my dream but it wasn't in reality, so I bring it to reality.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell me what's going on with you now and what's next.
Speaker 2:So what's going on with me now? I don't know the universe. What's going on with me now? I don't know the universe. What's going on with me now is I'm still unfolding and unlocking gifts I was interested in purchasing. I'll tell you a quick story. I was interested in purchasing some Black art, so I've been connecting with a lot of Black artists on Instagram throughout the pandemic and just locking into stuff. As you see, like Kehinde Wiley is on my wall and those are his plates and I love Kehinde.
Speaker 2:He's amazing, a great guy, and I love him. So I've been wanting to have some Black art in my life, in my space and in my world, and so I found this amazing artist on Instagram named Robert Patterson, and I reached out to him and I said I love your work and I would love to you know, look at it, and I definitely love it. And so he followed. He said he saw me on Fat Joe, saw Fat Joe talking about me, or maybe Fat Joe had posted me and I said you know, one day I want to, I want to definitely talk to you about purchasing a piece of your art. And he responded and said oh, that's amazing, you have a great style, you're actually art. And I'm like thank you, you know. And he said you should let me paint you. And I said OK cool, whatever.
Speaker 2:And he calls me and he says I have a photographer in New York City and I want her to shoot you. And I just, I have one request Just don't wear any plaids or any crazy patterns, because it can be very hard with the strokes. And I said, okay, it's totally fine. And he met this woman. She took some photos of me. She sends them off to Robert and a year later, fast forward to last week Robert says hey, I have this exhibit and it's going to take place in New York City and your photo is the last photo that I'm working on. Your painting is the last painting, and then it's going to be picked up and it's shipped into new york city. Are you available for the opening of my exhibit? And I said, absolutely, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna come whatever.
Speaker 2:And that day happens last thursday, and robert calls me and he says and I want to remember, I'm trying to buy this, I'm trying to buy art. That's what this happened. Robert calls me and he says hey, what's up, man? I'm like, hey, what's up? He's like you're on for tonight. I'm like, yeah, hey, what's up. He's like you on for tonight. And I'm like, yeah, he says so I have good news and I have bad news and I'm like, okay, and he says so. The good news is everyone loves your painting. The bad news is it just sold to a museum. What? What do you mean? That's what I said and he said that's not bad news.
Speaker 1:I guess I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:You know I wanted to buy it yeah.
Speaker 2:So now, so this painting that I go see, it now has a permanent home of me in the Wichita Arts Museum and it'll be there for like the next 100 years. Anyone can go see it, obviously. And so that's how my life is unfolding. I'm working on some film and television and I'm also bringing my life. I'm working on some film and television and I'm also bringing my life. So if you ask me how it's unfolding, it's unfolding with me removing myself from behind the camera and coming into the front of the camera and I was so open to doing this interview, not because you're also my friend and I think you're amazing I love this platform that you've built but also coming to the forefront a little bit and just sharing my life.
Speaker 2:So obviously now I'm going to exist someplace in the art world forever and I want to create a television show. I'm actually working with someone trying to create a television show, loosely based on, like my life and how my life is actually how my life actually works, how? Because I still am trying to grasp how it works right, like you're asking me how I like to grasp iceberg, and it's through a newspaper and then it unfolds into all these twists and turns and then fast forward. I, how do I wind up in a Wichita Arts Museum just from a photo from a person that I never met? I didn't meet the artist until last week in person.
Speaker 1:Remember, he just sketched you, yeah, on social media? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he said you're art, and then now I'll be in a museum. For the rest of you know, just throughout life, that'll be the home of a painting of me. So I think that's what my life is, that's what I'm doing with my life.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I got two more questions, whatever you need, and I should have asked this earlier, but anyway, how has social media changed fashion in your opinion?
Speaker 2:I think the way that social media has changed fashion is it's sort of kind of oversaturated it. You know, fashion Week was a very special. That was like a holiday for us, right, because it was sort of kind of like an unveiling. You didn't get to see anything before and obviously you don't really even get to see anything after. You didn't really see anything until it actually hit the stores or was in a publication, was in some kind of editorial for a shoot, and then you actually didn't, you weren't reintroduced to it or you actually weren't really introduced to it until it actually hit the stores. Now it's so accessible, you can click, you can watch anything and everything. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, I think it's. But I definitely think it lost them. It definitely decreased the magic, lost the mystique. It lost that mystique.
Speaker 2:I like mystique, I like mysterious, I like surprise, I like unveiling, I like the idea of the unexpected. You don't know what you're going to see. Now there's just a lead up, anything Like. You can just share it with the world and it's just like. And for me, things get old to me as a creative, things get old very quickly to me. So once I've seen something ran through social media for the past month. I don't know that it moves me when I see it in person. I don't know that I have that same you know, that same attraction to it because I've seen it. I've seen it over and over and over, I've seen it all over the place. So it's not really, it's not really special to me at that moment. So I think that's, it's just taking away some of the magic for me, ok, ok.
Speaker 1:Second thing I'm going to ask this of everybody, again, without incriminating anybody. And if you can't think of anything, you can't say it's fine, again without incriminating anybody. And if you can't think of anything, you can't say it's it's fine. Give me one crazy story about working in fashion and that and that you know, but get you. I don't want to get nobody in trouble, I don't want to bite, but just give me a crazy story, and you don't have to even mention the person who it was, but just give me a crazy story behind the scenes, whatever, that's a real question um, because I have a few of them, okay, so.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I got t-pain as a client randomly. He no longer wanted to wear the big hats anymore, and so they call me and they say, hey, so t-pain is looking for a new person and you, can you have a meeting in miami with his management? I'm like, yes, they said he wants to look regular. And I'm like, well, what does that mean? He wants that mean he wants to look right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I said so he doesn't want to wear big hats. He doesn't want to wear big hats anymore, he wants to look regular. So I said, okay, cool, and I get this job with pain. And he says to me is there any way possible you could make a wooden jacket? And I'm like a wooden jacket. And I said wait, so you mean like a jacket made out of wood? And he's like yeah, and I'm like I don't think that that's possible. But let me see what I can do. Let me figure something out for you. And Payne is, if you know Payne, he's extremely Very, he's a gifted.
Speaker 1:He's gifted, he's gifted. He's so talented guy.
Speaker 2:And so I said I can't do a wooden jacket. But I commissioned this artist who's amazing at airbrushing and and sort of kind of, has this three D, three dimensional sort of kind of thing, three-dimensional sort of kind of thing. And I said I just need you to make this leather. I want a leather jacket. But then I want you to airbrush it and basically give it the appearance of a wooden shellac floor. And he does it and I present it to Payne and Payne is like you can fucking do anything, get it. Can you make me a glass jacket? I said that I can't do. I can make a glass jacket. I said that I can't, I can't make a glass jacket. But I'm glad that I was able to make your dreams of having a wooden jacket at least appear to be wooden, because it was for a photo shoot and it looked like it was made of wood. That's amazing. I've never had a dress like that before.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, thank you for your time, brother. Thank you, thank you for your time, brother. We could do this for 5 hours. I really. This was fun, man. It was amazing. You can catch Mixed and Mastered on Apple Podcasts, spotify, iheart or wherever you get your podcasts. Hit that follow button, leave a review and tell a friend I'm your host, jeffrey Sledge. Mixed and Mastered is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios.
